On World Suicide Prevention Day and RU OK Day, Thursday 10 September, Gallipoli Medical Research Board member Gwen Cherne spoke with Bill McDonald on ABC Brisbane about the need for support for the whole veteran family.

BILL MCDONALD: Today is World Suicide Prevention Day, and veteran family advocate Gwen Cherne says we need to be having a wider focus on veterans to include their families as well. And I’m glad to say that Gwen joins us on the phone. Hi, Gwen.

GWEN CHERNE: Hi, how you going, Bill? Thanks for having me.

BILL MCDONALD: Oh, it’s nice to talk with you today and I’d start to start with asking if you could share your story with us and tell us about that, please.

GWEN CHERNE: Sure, just a minor correction, I was the first Veteran Family Commissioner, and my successor, Annabelle Wilson, is now the current Veteran Family Commissioner. We’re the only ones in the world, and it’s a pretty important and fantastic position to get to actually advocate on behalf of veteran families.

The reason I ended up in that role is because, um, as you can hear, I’ve got an American accent. Yes. I married an Australian soldier, who was a Special Forces soldier and he worked all over the world—Timor, Cambodia, Afghanistan, Iraq. My daughter was born when he was serving in Iraq, and, sadly, we lost him to suicide in 2017. My eldest son was serving in the military at the time, and I just went on this absolute mission to try and make sure the voices of families, and the issues around mental health and suicide were better understood and considered in all policies in defence and the Department of Veterans Affairs.

It has been a tremendous journey, but that’s why I care so much about days like today. And, you know, it’s a really significant day in that we are on the cusp of September 11th, which has such deep meaning, especially being the 25th anniversary, for our veterans and their families.

BILL MCDONALD: Yes, I’d like to talk with you about that as well. But I’d like to know now, a little bit about more of the work that you’re doing to help other veteran families, because there’s sadly a great need to have this discussion and have advocates like yourself that do this, and how are you doing it?

GWEN CHERNE: While we rightly focus on veterans, but we actually need to widen that circle of concern to the whole family, because family members are not just a protective factor around veterans. They actually often need support themselves. They can be affected by the consequences of service, which often can include—don’t always—but can include PTSD, hypervigilance, withdrawal, emotional volatility.

I’m working right now with the Gallipoli Medical Research which leads pioneering research into the needs of transitioning family members, and has deep expertise in veteran health research. So they not only look at the physical, mental, social factors that impact the health and wellbeing of veterans, but they also directly look at their families and the wider community. It’s this amazing, independent research institute that I sit on the board of, and they are based at the former war and repatriation hospital. Now, Greenslopes Private Hospital, in Brisbane, and so that’s how I’m continuing my work in my community.

BILL MCDONALD: I don’t think I’ve mentioned this, but I should have touched on it earlier. Veteran families are often talked about as part of the solution, but rarely as people who may actually need help and support themselves. So if you can explain a bit more about what you mean there.

GWEN CHERNE: Sure. So, you know, as a veteran or family, as a veteran is suffering, you know, with any of those things that I mentioned with their mental health, we also have veteran families who do things like informal caregiving within the veteran family. So, they are associated with sort of that long-term economic impact, but also, they provide an average of, I think, the numbers show 31 hours of care per week, which is, you know, economically massive. Yes. But that does take a toll on the family. And because of the consistent moving around the country, long times where our friends are either deployed or they’re on training exercises or absent because of the nature of the work.

Families can experience things like depression anxiety in their own right. And this is, you know, 50% of families, for example, of veterans who are transitioning out of defence and into the civilian community, report, high rates of depression, anxiety, and stress in the Australian community.

BILL MCDONALD: And, well, because there’s no escaping—I’m not saying anybody wants to escape—but there’s no escaping—it can be all consuming in a family, or if you’re a spouse, can’t it?

GWEN CHERNE: And, you know, when, when the veteran is experiencing that, so my husband died by suicide, and I struggle with suicidal ideation to this day. You know, not as frequent, not as acute, perhaps, as others, but I still struggle with it. And I think it’s important to talk about it. It’s not something that ever goes away. I have children who struggle with mental health issues because of the nature of their father’s death, but also because of their own, you know, the abandonment, or the challenges and what he lived with and the way he parented, and, the stresses that existed in our lives when he was alive. So all of this plays a role and has an impact.

Our Vietnam veterans, we probably studied the most, and we do know that there is intergenerational trauma that has occurred in that next generation, because of that service.

BILL MCDONALD: I’m talking with Gwen Cherne, a veteran family advocate, and, as you mentioned, the inaugural Veteran Family Advocate Commissioner on the Repatriation Commission from 2020 to 2025. And it’s an important topic to be discussing today on RU OK Day. There’s also, a lot talked about impact, but it is enough, do you find there’s enough listening going on and there’s enough action being translated from a lot of words? I often hear this from people that are impacted by it and they go, well, you know, they say they listen and they say they’ve got our back, and they understand, but do they really?

GWEN CHERNE: Do they really? Okay, I think there’s, um, you know, when I started this work 10 years ago now, veteran families were hardly understood, very seldomly considered. We have shifted massively to an understanding, to the impact. We have organisations like Gallipoli Medical Research, who are working directly with RSL Queensland, on the spillover effect of informal care, and things like that. So they’re really trying to have deep understanding of what’s going on for families. How that translates into care is still spotty, is still imperfect.

They have Open Arms, which has added families, but when families call, sometimes there’s still mixed messages, or it can feel challenging, or the hoops they have to actually jump through to get that care can be significant.

In other cases, you know, the Veteran and Family Wellbeing Agency. I say that because they have been very specific about including families in that agency. What that will look like and how that care will actually translate to families, we don’t know yet. So there’s some really great intentions. There’s some really smart people. There’s Brendan Cox, who used to be on the Board of Gallipoli Medical Research, and is now heading up that agency, is really smart, has been dedicated to veteran families and changing their lives over the last decade, plus.

But what that looks like for families today, there are lots of families still falling through the cracks, and there’s a lot of good work out there, so, you know, it, it’s really, you still have to advocate for yourself. You still have to know where to go. And the sector isn’t as aligned and isn’t as seamless as it needs to be to care for our families.

BILL MCDONALD: I’d like to keep chatting, but we’re pressed for time, but I want to ask you—you are in Melbourne ahead of the 25th anniversary, as you mentioned, at the start of the chat, for September 11th anniversary. How is that being marked?

GWEN CHERNE: So we are an organisation called TAPS: the Tragedy Assistance Program for Survivors of Military Death, have come over and partnered with the NFL, and we had a commemoration at the Shrine of Remembrance today. There were a number of legends from the NFL who attended, as well as the NFL Commissioner, US Consul General, and a number of—the Victorian Minister for Veterans Affairs were there, as well as DVA representatives.

It was a beautiful, meaningful event about how our two countries have partnered, have been in conflicts, for, obviously, over a century. But now, really, what that has meant over the last 25 years, in terms of our commitment to conflicts overseas and the impact that that has had on its families, both in the US and here in Australia, which is deeply felt by families like mine.

BILL MCDONALD: Gwen Cherne, thank you very much for chatting with us this afternoon.

GWEN CHERNE: Thank you very much for having me, Bill.

BILL MCDONALD: If this has raised any concerns for you, free and confidential support is available through Open Arms – veterans and families counselling on 1800 011 046, or Lifeline 13 11 14. Both services are available 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.